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Opened 6 weeks ago

Closed 6 days ago

#43517 closed theme (not-approved)

THEME: Rosemary – 1.0

Reported by: ilovewpcom Owned by: acosmin
Priority: new theme Keywords: theme-rosemary
Cc: hello@…

Description

Rosemary - 1.0

Rosemary is an exceptional theme for food and recipe blogs. The front page lets you feature your most popular posts (recipes), as well as popular tags. Built-in support for the most popular recipe plugins: EasyRecipe, WP Recipe Maker, Yummly Rich Recipes.

Theme URL - http://www.ilovewp.com/themes/rosemary/
Author URL - http://www.ilovewp.com/

Trac Browser - https://themes.trac.wordpress.org/browser/rosemary/1.0

SVN - https://themes.svn.wordpress.org/rosemary/1.0
ZIP - https://wordpress.org/themes/download/rosemary.1.0.zip?nostats=1

History:

Ticket Summary Status Resolution Owner
#43517 THEME: Rosemary – 1.0 closed not-approved acosmin

(this ticket)


https://themes.svn.wordpress.org/rosemary/1.0/screenshot.png
Theme Check Results:

  • RECOMMENDED: No reference to add_theme_support( "custom-header", $args ) was found in the theme. It is recommended that the theme implement this functionality if using an image for the header.
  • WARNING: "Rosemary" currently has 5,000+ active installations. Please check for name collisions outside of WordPress.org before approval.

Change History (30)

#1 @thinkupthemes
3 weeks ago

Comment has been edited as I can no longer pick up the theme for review. Busy with other reviews.

Last edited 3 weeks ago by thinkupthemes (previous) (diff)

#2 @ilovewpcom
3 weeks ago

Hi,

As reviewers can now pick the themes at random, I decided to preemptively ask for admin confirmation that this name is OK (in regards to the active install counter).

"Rosemary" is a logical name for a food-related theme and happens to be one of my favourite herbs.
Also, the theme was released about a month before being submitted to .org and was/is promoted on the main website since the day it was released (May 8th, 2017).

Pinging admins for confirmation: @emiluzelac, @poena, @greenshady.

#3 @thinkupthemes
3 weeks ago

Hello @ilovewpcom

Apologies! However, I won't have the time to review your theme anytime soon. I've picked up a number of other themes, and turns out they're much more complicated than I was hoping. Just my luck! lol :-)

I'm sure whoever picks up your theme for review will do a great job!

Kind regards.

#4 @emiluzelac
3 weeks ago

I agree with you @ilovewpcom and would say yes.

#5 @poena
3 weeks ago

So my twenty second, don't-let-me-wait-3weeks gut reply is no.
But I appreciate the effort of explaining why you want to use the name. Did you know that the name was in use before you submitted it?

Do you think similar names like, "the rosemary" for example would be free? Then you could still use the branding.
Maybe "Rosemary Herbs" ?

I'm not trying to be unreasonable.
I am not asking you to change the name because I want to be in the way of your success and prevent you from being featured on the popular list or whatever.
I am asking you to change the name because I do feel that it is fundamentally wrong to use other authors success, the active installs, in this way, for our own gain.

#6 @ilovewpcom
3 weeks ago

@poena thank you for your feedback.

I don't follow everything that happens on ThemeForest, Mojo or other marketplaces.
I've created a theme and gave it a short, memorable and topical name.
It has been on my website for 2 months with this name and I intend to keep it that way.

I will strongly disagree with a request to change the name. In that case I would like to provide a list of themes that should be removed from .org asap.

#7 @greenshady
2 weeks ago

Given that Rosemary is a fairly popular theme on ThemeForest by an elite author that's over a year old and still seeing regular updates, I can't think of a reason not to change the name of this theme.

Instead of the common name of "Rosemary", why not use the scientific name "Rosmarinus"?

#8 @ilovewpcom
2 weeks ago

Thank you @greenshady for your attention.
I can think of at least 3 reasons from the top of my head: Total, Consulting, Juliet.

As I said, I don't want to change the name of a theme that has been available and promoted for 2 months already, including one month before being uploaded to .org.

#9 @acosmin
2 weeks ago

  • Owner set to acosmin
  • Status changed from new to reviewing

#10 @acosmin
2 weeks ago

  1. Some errors in NS Theme Check, needs some fixing.
  1. You have some @since Reviewer 1.1.0 :) maybe you want to change them
  1. footer.php
    • L19 change esc_attr_e() with esc_html_e()
  1. readme.txt
    • L64, change to version 3

#11 @acosmin
2 weeks ago

Just so there's no confusion :) If I set this theme live, I get the axe? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Last edited 2 weeks ago by acosmin (previous) (diff)

#12 follow-up: @dingdang
11 days ago

Uploading a theme that would cause 5000 sites to get an "update theme" option to popup and unknown % of the site owners would click on it and have their sites totally messed, would probably let a well-intentioned developer to change the name himself. If one however continue to argue that the name is OK, that would mean with high probability that the only reason for the naming is to exploit the current flaw in the ranking which for unknown reason counts active install prior publishing and so the theme should be rejected.
There are dozens rejected themes for that reason and/or the authors changed the names w/o debating as the situation is pretty clear, so to keep the criteria equal this one also shouldn't be allowed to be uploaded and "poison" the web in addition to what already has been done with several known exceptions.
Sorry to be a "bad guy" but I'm just a "common sense guy".

#13 in reply to: ↑ 12 @emiluzelac
11 days ago

Replying to dingdang:

Uploading a theme that would cause 5000 sites to get an "update theme" option to popup and unknown % of the site owners would click on it and have their sites totally messed, would probably let a well-intentioned developer to change the name himself. If one however continue to argue that the name is OK, that would mean with high probability that the only reason for the naming is to exploit the current flaw in the ranking which for unknown reason counts active install prior publishing and so the theme should be rejected.
There are dozens rejected themes for that reason and/or the authors changed the names w/o debating as the situation is pretty clear, so to keep the criteria equal this one also shouldn't be allowed to be uploaded and "poison" the web in addition to what already has been done with several known exceptions.
Sorry to be a "bad guy" but I'm just a "common sense guy".

@dingdang I don't believe that this is the case. Commercial themes are required to disable the theme updates when there's a name clash with .org, at least that's what we do it at ThemeForest, it is a requirement before theme is even approved, not sure how this is with any other Marketplace.

#14 @ilovewpcom
11 days ago

@dingdang: looks to me that you don't really know what you are talking about.
When a theme with the same name pops up on .org - people don't suddenly get update notices.

That happens only if both of these conditions are met:

  1. Pinging of .org is open (as Emiluzelac already mentioned, all themes on TF have that feature disabled).
  2. The .org version is higher than the ones people are using.

There are 2 themes on TF with this name: one is currently 1.4 and the other one is 1.2.1.

#15 @acosmin
11 days ago

looks like I have a stalker :)

#16 @dingdang
11 days ago

Hello @ilovewpcom

are you sure that it's about TF themes only but not others as well which don't have that disabled. Or my own site about rosemary, that is using a theme XYZ but my child theme is in a folder /rosemary/ - it also will get an update button which I may click by accident.
I guess a lot of theme developers are aware of what you also noted (which let you to chose that name) but as you can see not everyone is in rush to name their themes with colliding names - that's not because they are stupid, but because there are ethics and may be they don't want to upload something here that would cause potential problems to existing sites.
I see two admins @poena @greenshady already asked you politely to change the name and I also will not comment anymore - it is clear you know what you do and you named the theme in a conflicting manner with purpose - I personally don't accept that so I shared my opinion.

Last edited 11 days ago by dingdang (previous) (diff)

#17 @ilovewpcom
11 days ago

@dingdang: I apologize for troubling you with this matter, please forgive all the inconvenience that I have caused you.

Thank you for taking the time to bring such valuable arguments and feedback to the ticket, I'm sure they will be taken in consideration by the above-mentioned admins.

Your valuable theme reviews are consistently moving this team and community forward, please continue!

#18 @dingdang
11 days ago

@ilovewpcom I love sarcasm but to clarify I wouldn't review a theme until that same issue is solved definitely (at core level - the updating mechanism; at web level - not to count previous active installs, so "smart" developers don't try to exploit the flaw) plus some other "gray areas" that I've raised once. But until that I will check and comment on all new tickets with name collisions.

Last edited 11 days ago by dingdang (previous) (diff)

#19 follow-up: @imon Hasan
11 days ago

@ilovewpcom how we can beleving on you . you released this theme in may 2017

I suggest you do a google search and make sure you have choosen a more unique name. Googling "you wordpress theme" shows the above themeforest theme as the top result.

#20 in reply to: ↑ 19 @ilovewpcom
11 days ago

Replying to imon Hasan:

@ilovewpcom how we can beleving on you . you released this theme in may 2017

I suggest you do a google search and make sure you have choosen a more unique name. Googling "you wordpress theme" shows the above themeforest theme as the top result.

Sorry, I don't understand your message.

Believe me "what" exactly? I don't get it.
Can you clarify please?

#21 @ilovewpcom
10 days ago

Just to avoid any confusion and maybe prevent people from randomly jumping in with accusations without knowing the full story, here's a quick timeline and an explanation for my position.

1.

"Total" theme goes live on October 4th 2016. On the next day it is suddenly and unexpectedly discovered that it is one of the top selling themes on ThemeForest, released in 2013 and currently standing at 25,000+ sales. The theme's active installs counter was 50,000+ when it was set live.
The next day, on October 5th, the theme is suspended from the repo because of this discovery.
After a single message from the theme's author saying basically that "it is a good theme name", the theme is brought back online only 6 hours later.
Since then, for 9 months already, the theme has been sitting very steadily in Top 5 and Top 10 themes in the Popular tab on the repo.
From the looks of it - the sky didn't fall, all is fine and good.
Nobody cared about those 50,000+ websites getting the Update notice? It was not an issue? OK.

2.

Juliet theme is uploaded on 13th of March 2017 and goes live on 13th of May 2017. I will not be addressing the obvious "theme names cannot be reserved" tactic that was involved here.

The start of the Live ticket says there are 1,000+ active installs.
There were already 2 live themes on ThemeForest, one by the theme's author and another by someone else.
The theme was approved without a single mention or worry for the users of other themes with the same name.

(later edit) 3.

Astra theme is uploaded on 12th of April 2017 by an author without any themes on .org and without any themes on their official website. On initial upload it already showed 2,000+ active installs.
It is closed for a different reason but a new ticket is opened 2 days later.
The theme goes through review, even though it still shows 2,000+ active installs from an unexplained source.

It is approved and goes live on 30th of May 2017.

It is important to note that in the past there were multiple themes with this name, and Googling it returns a couple of different themes from different developers, both WP and non-WP.

4.

Consulting theme is uploaded on 25th of May 2017 with a counter of 10,000+ active installs as a form of "protest" against vague and murky guidelines about name policing.
With confirmation and approval from an admin in Slack, the theme name is approved and goes live on 31st of May 2017. (it waited only 6 days in the review queue because it took the place of another theme by the same author).
Since then the theme has been steadily standing in Top 5 of the Popular Themes page.
Still 10,000+ active installs.
0 support threads complaining about "the wrong theme".
A single 1-star review complained about the wrong theme, but the confusion was cleared up and it was modified into a 5-star review.
Another proof that the sky did not fall.

The Aftermath

Total and Consulting have been approved at different times and under different circumstances, both with approval from multiple admins. Together they make up 60,000+ confirmed active installs and visibly nothing bad has happened, no real consequences.

And here I am, with a food blog theme with a generic (ingredient) word as the theme's name, which I released on my website one month before releasing it here. I had to wait a month because I had a different theme in the queue and couldn't upload it on the same day.

During this month I have been promoting it on my website and have been getting numerous downloads.

I upload it to .org and for some reason people start going crazy about the 5,000+ active installs. Who knew that a generic theme name would be in use someplace else?

Now, as I said before, I don't intend to change the name. If the decision is to reject it with the current name - I won't be uploading it back under a different name. It will stay like this on my website and there's that.

But then I would like a reasonable explanation as to why different theme authors are treated differently, if the rules are the same? A rule is not a rule if it is applied randomly.
If you reject my theme then I would expect that the other themes would be removed from .org (or renamed).

If that is not done for themes that have 10,000+ and 50,000+ active installs, then how can a reasonable person claim in the same sentence that name collision is a real issue? If this rule is applied selectively, then please don't get angry if I say that decisions are made based on mood, personal preference or personal favors.

It was voiced many times before by admins: .org reviewers are not supposed to be policing names or looking too much outside of .org. It is not .org's responsibility to take care of themes that are distributed elsewhere, maybe even under a non-GPL license.

Of course you have to prevent someone from uploading a Zerif or an Avada, those are made up gibberish words and are obviously uploaded with ill-intent. But generic, topically-related words?

Anyway. I hope this explains in detail my opinion and position on this too-much-discussed-topic.

Whatever the decision is - let it be a reasonable and logical one.

In both cases I reserve the right to react accordingly and express publicly my opinions on the outcome. I will not shy away from criticizing "The Man".

Last edited 10 days ago by ilovewpcom (previous) (diff)

#22 @dingdang
10 days ago

Hello @ilovewpcom

I undarstand that you may be jelaous about others but you can send the comment above into their respective tickets.

It happens that all of the community members are aware of the problem. You can discuss (as I did) what could be done to the old cases at #themereview.

Now since you like very much giving examples, I can provide several dozens of *declined* proposals because of name collisions. Since there are examples for both cases to pretend to be equally treated means that you yourself may vote to be declined, right? How do you chose which one is preferable to you? The one that has potential benefits. Beyond being egoistic real people are here to make a decision on what is better and what is not. And so it seems decision on which of the two cases *should* be acceptable at wordpress.org is already done and you should abide with it.

Until wordpress.org's way to identify themes is changed, the name collisions of themes published here may (and do) cause problems (I have personal real examples of unwilling updates of clients' sites). And since this is causing *real* problems name collisions shouldn't be allowed.

Old cases are old cases (and it's good they are isolated so far) - get a gun, meet the owners and reviewers and punish them or whatever you want. Or let somehow the admins to suspend them and restore the justice. The goal is to stop doing that ASAP. Otherwise, you are not the smartest here, and after some time we will end with every new theme being colliding with some popular at ThemeForest or other providers. I am sure you very well understand this (as above you give 3 good examples of "poisoning" as I call it), don't you? Once again - if others do nasty things and somehow don't get punished, that doesn't mean everyone should do it. If one can't perform self-control, others come and do what is needed. Otherwise very soon "nasty" multiplies exponentially and becomes "too ugly and smelling".

Please consider changing the name of the theme voluntarily and join the good direction of the future of the themes directory.

Please upload the theme with a new name and post the ticket url here. You reviewer will review the new ticket. Also add a reference to this ticket in the new one.

#23 @ilovewpcom
10 days ago

@dingdang: you should really stop talking about guns and punishing people using them.

P.S. For someone who joined #themereview channel just 4 days ago it might be a little premature to speak for the community, for the future of the directory and to demand stuff from theme authors.

#24 @emiluzelac
10 days ago

Hey all, Let's bring this down a notch and keep it clean and civilized.

#25 @dingdang
10 days ago

@ilovewpcom are we going to keep talking about the ticket's subject and related problems, or we go personal?

ilovewpcom: Member Since: May 11th, 2016
dingdang: Member Since: December 17th, 2010
today: July 7th, 2017
So I'm playing around for a period of time 5.68 times longer than you. Or easier - compare "7 years" to "1 year".

Also I see my analogies attracted your attention, please try to understand their meaning and my sarcasm from its positive side.

#26 follow-up: @imon Hasan
10 days ago

@ilovewpcom

so why admin or reviewer close those ticket or not allow for naming collisions ?

https://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/40338
https://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/43944

#27 in reply to: ↑ 26 @ilovewpcom
10 days ago

Replying to imon Hasan:

@ilovewpcom

so why admin or reviewer close those ticket or not allow for naming collisions ?

https://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/40338
https://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/43944

What are you asking me for? I'm not an admin, I don't make the decisions.
I'm simply asking why my theme can't be treated like the ones I mentioned above. In my mind it is a completely rational question.

If everyone is equal, why is someone more equal than others?

I'm trying to get some sort of official reaction with a definitive answer, not some vague passing of the ball from one referee to another.

#28 @greenshady
7 days ago

Two admins have already asked you to change the name. Your ticket is only open because we didn't want you to lose your place in the queue.

So, it's a simple matter: Will you change the name?

#29 @ilovewpcom
6 days ago

It is simple indeed: I will not, for the many reasons mentioned above.

#30 @greenshady
6 days ago

  • Resolution set to not-approved
  • Status changed from reviewing to closed
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